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Post by justinaquino on Sept 12, 2010 18:17:59 GMT 8
www.embird.com/This is the software used to make the expensive "conversions" for the computerized embroidery. Basically If one can "get" this program, he can negotiate the rest (but making it worth their while) and just pay for the patches.
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kalbs
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Post by kalbs on Sept 12, 2010 23:44:10 GMT 8
That software is for computerized sewing machines I believe.
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Post by justinaquino on Sept 13, 2010 8:52:43 GMT 8
@kalbs. I was checking the prices of each patch and the software of the local computer embroidery service. At around $16-17 each, its actually cheaper and faster just to convert an image file and go to the local computerized embroidery service in a local mall or for a better deal in manila. Each conversion costs Php2000+ (depending on the "size" which really doesn't matter to the computer). Without that cost its just around Php150 ($3) per patch.
Ideally, this means no need for ordering abroad or timing purchases. Just convert it ourselves. Even if there is a additional fee for producing just a few (Its 500pesos) its still cheaper than buying abroad at Php650.
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Post by darktide on Sept 13, 2010 10:34:53 GMT 8
I think this would all depend on how "authentic" looking you would want the patch to be. I don't know about German patches, but "official " issued US SSI have a stitch count, and this can be seen if a specific SSI is researched at the American Institute of Heraldry.
Even If a SSI/ patch is copied, it may not look the same as a "original", as the number of stitches will be different, which does affect the overall look/ appearance of the patch.
There is also the matter of the correct shade/ color of thread used.
Again, it all boils down to how "real" and or "period" you would want the patch to look.
For US SSI/ patches it is probably less of a hassle to order them.
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Post by justinaquino on Sept 13, 2010 15:26:33 GMT 8
I think this would all depend on how "authentic" looking you would want the patch to be. I don't know about German patches, but "official " issued US SSI have a stitch count, and this can be seen if a specific SSI is researched at the American Institute of Heraldry. Even If a SSI/ patch is copied, it may not look the same as a "original", as the number of stitches will be different, which does affect the overall look/ appearance of the patch. There is also the matter of the correct shade/ color of thread used. Again, it all boils down to how "real" and or "period" you would want the patch to look. For US SSI/ patches it is probably less of a hassle to order them. Interesting take on the level of detail. If the information is attainable, whats stopping from such specifications making it to the Embroidery technician and that technician reproducing it? I have nothing against maximum authentic reproduction, I'm just pointing out that reproduction quality and authentication if they have a certain standard then it should be represented by a 3rd party and not just the people selling the product. While at it, what is the line between reproduction and a true blue authentic antique? Will the cost be justifiable for anyone in the hobby or is it a matter of personal preference? I don't personally see no utility on reproduction that requires a microscope or a magnifying glass (thread count!) to examine. Especially when that standard was not intentional of the original material but a matter of means available. When authenticity becomes a debating point, it becomes a slippery slope particularly among vying reproductions as to what level of standard to hold. But if someone doesn't mind spending their hard earned salary on the most authentic thread count, as more valuable compared to tuition, food, time with the family, health, medicine etc. I have nothing against that
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Post by darktide on Sept 13, 2010 16:16:03 GMT 8
Like I stated in my earlier post, it all depends on how "authentic" or "real" you want the patch to look. Some people pay great attention to detail, others less. it is a matter of personal preference. If, for you personally attention to detail doesn't matter it doesn't mean that everyone has to feel the same way. That is your personal preference. Yes, there are standards with regards to US SSI and no, you don't need a microscope to tell the difference between a original and a reproduction. "Weekend Warriors" sells reproduction patches. I've seen 82nd and 101st, 1st Cav and 10th Mountain. They are computer made, but are easy to spot as reproductions. If money for tuition, food and the other factors you stated was a problem for you I doubt that you would be doing this. What I mean... "Standards" for the 11th Airborne SSI.
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labrador
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Post by labrador on Sept 13, 2010 16:41:33 GMT 8
The German patches i'm currently selling use this program. They are definitely not "spot on" but will do at a distance of about 5 to 10 feet for an impression. IT would be nice to find someone with label making machines though as the BEVO type patches were far more common than the embroidered type that i'm selling. That said, the germans were hardly as strict with their patch manufacturers as the Americans were. A reference book of mine shows more than 5 variations of BEVO and embroidered sleeve eagles all manufactured in different countries at different points in the war.
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Post by darktide on Sept 13, 2010 17:18:51 GMT 8
The German patches i'm currently selling use this program. They are definitely not "spot on" but will do at a distance of about 5 to 10 feet for an impression. IT would be nice to find someone with label making machines though as the BEVO type patches were far more common than the embroidered type that i'm selling. That said, the germans were hardly as strict with their patch manufacturers as the Americans were. A reference book of mine shows more than 5 variations of BEVO and embroidered sleeve eagles all manufactured in different countries at different points in the war. Can't "All Made Ups" make the bevo? I do know that they make labels as well. Or would the minimum order be too expensive? I remember that when I was a student at LSGH our school patch on our uniform was bevo, and that it did have metal-like threads in it. Don't know who made it though. There is a patch shop downtown, very close to Hidalgo. They make pretty good stuff. If I am not mistaken, they made a lot of USAF Squadron patches when the bases were still here, also some Vietnam War-era patches. You can see their old patches on display in their window.
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kalbs
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Post by kalbs on Sept 13, 2010 17:46:59 GMT 8
If you look at real patches from WW2 you will actually see a quite variety of styles and methods of fabrication and some color variation of the same patch. I recall many variation of the 101AB, look it up and you'll see what I mean. Some were made locally in Britain or say or in Australia and even in some cases hand sewn. I think what Justin posted is a good idea. I just wasn't sure the application was appropriate but it seems based on his second reply it would be worth exploring.
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labrador
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Post by labrador on Sept 13, 2010 17:59:34 GMT 8
Wow darktide! you're LSGH too? what batch? Yes i do remember that patch was a bevo. All Sonia is selling me from india are leather and canvas goods. I've yet to find someone equipped with a label maker but i'm still looking. Also, with our numbers i doubt if we'll make the minimum order to make it worth it.
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Post by darktide on Sept 13, 2010 18:10:49 GMT 8
Wow darktide! you're LSGH too? what batch? Yes i do remember that patch was a bevo. All Sonia is selling me from india are leather and canvas goods. I've yet to find someone equipped with a label maker but i'm still looking. Also, with our numbers i doubt if we'll make the minimum order to make it worth it. Yup, batch 80 LSGH. Went to Taft after. If you remember, the LSGH bevo patch was very well made. I'm sure you remember the silver and gold metallic threads in the patch?
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Post by justinaquino on Sept 13, 2010 18:22:00 GMT 8
Like I stated in my earlier post, it all depends on how "authentic" or "real" you want the patch to look. Some people pay great attention to detail, others less. it is a matter of personal preference. If, for you personally attention to detail doesn't matter it doesn't mean that everyone has to feel the same way. That is your personal preference. Yes, there are standards with regards to US SSI and no, you don't need a microscope to tell the difference between a original and a reproduction. "Weekend Warriors" sells reproduction patches. I've seen 82nd and 101st, 1st Cav and 10th Mountain. They are computer made, but are easy to spot as reproductions. If money for tuition, food and the other factors you stated was a problem for you I doubt that you would be doing this. What I mean... "Standards" for the 11th Airborne SSI. Seeing this, I don't see whats the theoretical problem of making sure the Embroidery File have the exact specifications. Thank you for providing such references. I'm sure if all thegroup has such access, even down to the tones these still won't cost as much as the ordered versions. Such services do logos for a lot of big companies that likely value authenticity and details such as stitch number and tone. Especially color tone, working in multi-media you can get into real trouble getting company colors off tone. I can't guarantee how successful this endeavor would be, but I think it won't be against the best interests of all concerned if I tried(either it is failure or success). Even as a failed enterprise, at least I know why its not possible and it is a better appreciation of the current product. Success means savings for all, and I plan to be very transparent about my sources and what services are willing to take such orders.
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labrador
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Post by labrador on Sept 13, 2010 18:32:53 GMT 8
Just as a guide, in case you do plan to go into it, please do litzen as no one's doing them here. We don't have army eagles either. I also wouldn't mind if someone came up with another set of alternative SS eagles and skulls. Here's hoping for your success!
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Post by justinaquino on Sept 15, 2010 14:19:40 GMT 8
Just as a guide, in case you do plan to go into it, please do litzen as no one's doing them here. We don't have army eagles either. I also wouldn't mind if someone came up with another set of alternative SS eagles and skulls. Here's hoping for your success! Feel free to post links of the Patch images and the patches and stats. I googled ISS and I can't find anything related to patch library. I would need more specifically worded search terms if that can be provided. I got the software working now, I'm just need to put in the time to experiment and check out the youtube tutorials. (just search using the embird and youtube to bring up the videos of how it works). So far, simple enough. I can confirm it has Stitch count, as you are working on a grid, and details regard exact hue and color. It has a click and auto conversion of an image file to stitched version, while allowing for editing and value changes. Also on further consultation with other coworkers regarding their company uniforms, minimum orders of 20pcs of Php120+ are available.
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